Face Off: From local to global, execution and culture

- Oriol, how're you?

Well, where do we start then?Where do you want to start? If it's okay,I'd like to start with that thing you said about expanding to the United States and learning from a competitive market.

We've got a lot of experience in the US, and me, also, at a professional and personal level.

And obviously, the gold fever started in the US.So it's very common for companies to have that dream of "wanting to be in the United States".

It's also true that many investors live in the US and give a lot of relevance to having presence in that country.

But... How many squared kilometers is the United States?

How many million people live there?How many cultures coexist in the United States?

I think in New York live more than 150 different nationalities.

So, even if the price is awesome, if you can dominate the US,the investment and the risk is also great.

I believe that companies need to think, more than ever,in "divide and conquer".

You don't need to be the best in all the US, simply just dominating one State such as California, that, by the way, is top ten GPDs of the world,you can have a marvelous success.

That's something we've learned as a company.We started with a structural plan in different States, and then we realized that, to dominate the market, we needed to change our mindset.

That strategy was leading us to invest, and keep investing and investing with no return.

If you really want to dominate the US, one of the things you need to think about is that, maybe, all the leadership of the company should be in the United States, to give them that influence, and then start with a State, or even... "Okay, let's bet on New York,let's get strong there, and then we'll see with the other States".

Another important thing is that every State has its own law and its own taxes. Therefore, those companies that want power or want to reach all the United States altogether, find a lot of difficulties with the legislation in each State.

That makes everything more difficult.Yes, it's interesting because even if we're on different areas, we've had to learn those lessons too.

I think one of the problems, one of the important things in the playbook is what you said, that it's not only leadership what you need, but it's the fact that going to the US is an all-in play,you risk everything, desinvesting product or marketing,focusing on the main company, or consider it like an expanded market where you could divide your effort in different countries.

You can't choose. It's all or nothing.And then, dividing into segments, very important.

Most of all, I think we've learn about competitors,because you can be niche and reach a State, a certain area,and be in a strong position.

Moreover, certain States, as you said, give you a big opportunity and a big market. But wanting to compete with all at the same time can be so expensive that it becomes a problem.

We talk a lot about expanding to the US but not so much about synergies with the United States.

My personal recommendation: we know that many Spanish companies have Portugal and Mexico as reference markets when they expand.

If you want to go to all Latin America,if you're thinking on going to the US,you have to take into account that maybe Texas is your State,because the synergies that exist between Mexico and Texas are a lot bigger than the ones between Mexico and New York.

I think these types of reflections are important when it comes to expand to the US. It's not that big,and you'll reach the big number. At the beginning,you have to make small steps that leads you to success.

In Wellhub, what was the expansion, from Brazil, that helped you reach those other countries as a startup, and having Latin America as reference?

We wanted a market that our investors valued positively from United States.

And as always happens, it is where most mistakes are made because of their magnitude.

We learned a lot and that helped us to be more relevant.

Now we're one of the most important well-being companies there.

We changed our mindset from a big country with different offices in different States, to start centralizing everything,and having a corporate image, an added value based on the fact that,yes, we're on the United States, but we're on New York and we have offices there.

Let's start hiring people that have market knowledge apart from influencing positively with people who came from other countries where we have Wellhub, so they can start contributing to that culture.

To win in the United States you need results that may be best obtained by a local team with market knowledge.

But if we want those results to be maintained through time,we need the same culture that the company reflects in other countries.

And that's hard for the local employee that has worked there for two days.

Another thing that I don't recommend is hiring with a big fat check.

That's the first mistake every company makes when we go to the US, searching for that emblematic professional, that has experience in the US market and comes from a multinational.

And it's a super risky bet, because in the North American market people stay in a company maybe for a couple of years, and then change.

It's valued on the marked and doesn't give you a bad reputation.

But imagine the experience you have at Factorial, 12 or 24 months for a project like that it's nothing,because of the growth there. By the time you start coming up with ideas and they start working, you learn...

Eight months have gone by.So, another learning and recommendation is stability.

How much time does a team need to evaluate if it's good, mature, or if it needs changes?

I think there's a big rule for me, not just for teams,but in a lot of ways in life, and also at a professional level:Ninety days. Why?

Because in 9' days you're not going to get results,nor advances in processes, but you'll see what makes the difference:the attitude.

Then, what you don't demonstrate in 90 days as a company,as a leader or contributor, in the first 90 days,that attitude won't be changed in 180 or 240 days.

You've worked seven years, I've worked at Factorial for two and a half year, but with no doubt, all my mission and what I've always done is expanding globally in different levels.

In addition, as head of Global Partners, I focus on growing, testing and climbing in new countries through partners. That is one of the ways that we've learned in this sector of medium and small company size,of SMB, you can reach many companies step by step a lot faster.

It's true that we started like that,with this partner that we all know from NY. We have another one to segment the regions.

Finally, we realized that with this model of partners relationship is key, regarding global expansion.

So, we needed partners that we saw positively,because, at the end, we need to be united in that execution,have common objectives, and good reporting.

Creating your own mark is hard, but it's worse if you also have to do that while adding value with your partners, that usually go for safer bets, and don't usually want to try new things.

It was a big challenge.Today, in what countries can we find Wellhub?

In Brazil, Chile, Argentina and Mexico.We're in the United States.

That led us to expand to Canada, because if you want to dominate the US, it's very important to have presence in Canada once you're in a mature-type of market and not in a period of market penetration.

Then we go to Europe, where we are in Spain, Portugal, Italy,Germany, Romania and the United Kingdom.

Factorial also started with Spain as local market,then it had its momentum, growth, product development,understanding the playbook, the ABC of each position, the roles,the KPIs, what you can expect,and have everything ready to be successful.

And then, suddenly, in a year you're opening 8 new markets with offices in Brazil, Mexico or the US, and then the European markets, Spain, France, Germany, Italy, United Kingdom and Portugal.

Thus, of course, your product complexity changes from the adjustment of the regulations, to the marketing focused on a specific consumer or company...

A reality that turns into a chaos: growing, get by on your own...

Which is great, because we're all with the testing mindset and, at the end, you need to understand where it can work.

From all those markets, we're still operating in two, so...

It wouldn't have happened if we had tried one by one trying to do things right.

Maybe we would be on the market for one or two, from that ambition of opening 8 places at once.

Yes, you need that ambition.Sometimes our limitation is being unable to see ourselves further.

And when you see yourself, not dreaming,because when you dream you think everything is fantastic,when you see yourself, you start seeing your mistakes and start thinking,as we said, what can you do with that error margin.

If we wait until everything's perfect, maybe we end up missing our train and 20 companies have tried before us.

To launch something,I think many people say: "The most important thing is talent,and the team to carry it out", because there will be variability,problems that need solutions, and you'll need to build, not just operate.

Let's see the correct profile for someone when you launch something, at its level of culture for work, adapting and knowing that person,or thinking you know them, that may help you launch something.

That leads me to two things: one, I agree with you. Any company,any entrepreneur or company leader, what they need to understand is that execution will make the difference.

Through execution, you can think of many words related to sports, like "effort", "discipline", "teamwork", "work in groups"...

That skill of adapting to changes and to the company's environment, I think that's what...

makes the difference.Talent, as it is, doesn't make a person more capable of working in something. We have to see it as a plus, we have to find a person that is fully convinced of our purpose and our mission as a company.

So, the best profile for me is a person who can create in your project,not the most talented one, or the one who's been to the most amazing college, or the one who has 20 years of experience, because all of that is less important in an expansion.

What's the biggest learning for you when it comes to launching markets, constituting a team,understanding a business, and also communicating internally, how to gain relevance,how to make what you're doing, that market,be important and seen?

Well, first, regardless of where's that local company,if we're talking about a Spanish company that goes to Mexico or a company based in Abu Dhabi that wants to go to India,there's a key concept for me: humbleness. With a humble attitude,you can start listening, and leave behind all stereotypes.

And then, discipline.And I mean "discipline", not "sacrifice".

I don't think a soul in Wellhub, neither do I, believes in sacrifice,because when you sacrifice something, you stop doing something you think is important.

Discipline, in the other hand, is associated in society and in companies as a bad thing.

I'm super strict. We start at 9 in the morning.- Then I can't be there at 9:02.

Yes, I agree.But if we see "discipline" as a more abstract concept,that's what will lead us to a daily execution that gives us enough knowledge of what we need to change.

Discipline in a project gives you perseverance, and that project needs quality and quantity.

We talked about it earlier, if you're not almost perfect,at an attention level, and so on,that error margin must be negligible, and mistakes will be made afterwards.

What motivates the teams a lot is: "Alright, let's do it right, don't come up with just one solution, think further".

For me, briefly, what I think it's most important when creating a project from zero, the founding is always the team,having the needed talent.

Then, having a good plan, a plan that starts giving time for growth in a sustainable way, it can be fast or slow,but based on something. A plan of what things you're learning,what things you're improving, and how are you impacting.

This translates to union, talent,a plan, clear objectives for each person,to know inf we're following the plan, or if there are things going wrong, and being able to react fast to this.

I would say that, at the end, this culture that's created,is the result of these two things, where there are all those learning values,to get objectives, to grow, that everyone understands the vision of what you're building together... I think that's the basic formula to start from zero with a team.

Without a plan, a North Star, you don't have an objective to hold on to.

You have to define very well the plan.Another subject I wanted to discuss: everything is changing so fast with the artificial intelligence and all.

We, as Factorial, we're a team focused on the product and on reaching small and medium-sized companies,but we have to adapt, not only the language,but also its use, in marketing.

It's also a proposal of value, at a regulation level, of understanding how does it work, how does that connect to each country.

AI is making everything work faster.We're starting to think about hiring a team to launch countries where it's needed, not only Spanish and English, or Portugal and Brazil,where they speak Portuguese, but instead we can think of launching in south-east Europe, or in northern Europe,far from the team and far from what we need at a product and functionality level.

Accelerating things is helping.We also reflect on that, if we start seeing more and more competitors in more markets, because this is accelerating.

What do you think about that?We see it as an incredible opportunity for growth and improvement.

But I repeat the "we need to do things right".Each revolution of the market has helped to go further.

Internet has made it possible, in a way or another, to connect a vendor and a consumer from everywhere.

This was impossible, because how would you connect a vendor from Spain that wanted to sell something to a consumer that was in Mexico?

You had to go there, build a relationship through letters,go to an international trade fair...

Now, if you have a great platform, you can reach it.

The difference with AI is that everybody thinks,and they're not wrong, that it can add an incredible value in a really short time, because each week and each month you can make progress thanks to the AI, that gets more and more capable with time.

I think you're doing great.My advice for other companies, as we're doing in Wellhub:don't change your company from night to day just because you can or you should adapt to AI.

Take a good look at where that added value can come from.

In your case, it's the expansion to other countries, and that's good.

Then, what we're doing at Wellhub is,first, a person by person change, in which we have to adapt our daily routines to that AI.

And I mean small things, like arranging a meeting.

And now that we're on that phase in which each team as they start using that artificial intelligence,obviously more rustic and less developed,we're seeing where are the niche markets, for example,and how a selling team can use that AI.

Sometimes, what we can do, instead of having a coach that says:"Hey, look at how you wrote those emails", etc.,an AI can help giving you some examples of how to write an email for a client after a meeting.

I thing the paradigm is going to change, that acceleration on the way of creating something new, on improving.

I think with this processes we'll have startups that in little time can have great products and grow a lot, because they will improve what already existed, creating attraction.

But also, in competitive markets, companies that move up to new countries but that bring better processes and give better services to the client with AI, it's going to be a massive change.

Companies unable to rise the standard and adopt these new technologies, will have nothing to do with their competitors, that will triumph.

Because its levels of productivity, of efficiency,and of service, will probably be ten times better.

Look, each technology progress emphasizes the differences between companies that adopt the new technologies, AI in this case,and companies that don't.

What makes the difference is that ability to see, and accept change and progress.

Let's see if, after a year, we talk again and check if it's true, if it's faster.

It won't be what we expect today.What will happen will be surprising.

Well, it has been a pleasure.I think of this as a lesson, and it's great to share opinions.

See you soon.Come on, let's go over there.